Now, some advice from a veteran.

1. Don't take advice from newbies. They don't know what they're doing yet.

I don't care what you're going through, it's irrelevant. Your personal experience =/= the only experience there is. As someone that joined corps early on, and got wardecced often as a newb in those corps, I'm telling you your advice is bad, and my KB speaks for itself, so **** off and learn something about the game before you try to pretend you are some kind of authority on this PVP experience, kthxbai.

I have another advice: dont take advice from anybody, they may set you up for trap or scam you!
Just explore the game on your own and have fun being killed and scammed nonetheless.

The PVP aspect of this game should be taken seriously from the word 'go', because PVP is the central theme to this game. Marketing is PVP, mining is PVP; everything is a competition, or a driver for competition. But even if all you're doing is bumming about running missions, if you're not prepared for someone to jump into your mission and mess with you, and you don't know what to do about it because you chose to ignore everyone and just go off and learn for yourself, then guess what? You get to learn the hard way. That's what you've chosen for yourself, and as a result, you have no one but yourself to blame for your own failure to mitigate the risks by garnering that much-needed understanding of PVP.

Even if you never click F1 in anger against another player, understanding PVP is vital for any measure of success in this game, because someone is sure as hell gonna click F1 on you one day, be it sooner or later.

bad advice is bad, don't listen to this numnuts.

When you find the right corp, you'll understand the difference it can make to one's progression.

as someone who spends an inordinate amount of time talking to newbro pilots ill call your counter productive ass whatever i damnn well please.

this is some of the worst advice i have seen here in a long time and you should be disregarded

Hello OP.

Worst advise ever. People like you are the reason so many players quit out of boredom. Please stop giving new players advice and just quit if you don't even manage to handle a Highsec war.

Actually, there is lots to learn when you're killed in a measly fit frigate or destroyer. There's always lots to learn when you lose, regardless of the loss. In fact, you learn a lot more from losing ships than you do from killing them, because let's face it, if you're killing ****, you're probably set.

What are these griefer corps you're talking about?

Are you talking about the ones that invite people to corp and kill them? Simple, don't join corps with friendly fire enabled. Really not a problem anymore on that front. That being said, I've trained a lot of very capable PVP'ers, one of my proudest being Benji Dan. Feel free to peruse his KB. I trained him by fighting him, and making him go find fights in lowsec, or getting him involved in wardecs, giving him advice with every loss to begin with, and as time went by, instead of giving direct advice, I began asking what it was he learned. Sure, I killed him myself a few times too. But one day, he took his 4-6 month old toon out to lowsec in a ****-fit active armour blaster thorax, and killed a 2008 veteran in a t2 fit rupture. It shouldn't have been possible, but Benji used what he'd learned, and won anyway. It was close, like, about 8% structure close, but he won.

Because he learned fast, and learned by losing. In-corp sparring, even to total shiploss, should be encouraged for new people. It's not for KB padding, trust me. I don't stop trying to kill my newbies until they demonstrate they're able to kill me, and trust me, I'm on Benji's KB too.

So I'm going to have to ask you to define what a griefer corp is exactly, please, because I've yet to encounter such a thing.

It's ironic. People like the OP mean well but the advice they give is the opposite of helpful. Even CCP themselves have said that people who engage with others early on stay longer than people who don't. Joining a corp is damn near essential.

I was told much the same thing as what the OP said back in 2007, which is why I spent most of my 1st YEAR in EVE running missions in high sec. I took several week-long breaks during that period and almost quit the game altogether, it was the advent of Faction Warfare that got me really engaged with the game and since then they only time I've taken a break was when I've moved and had no internet.

Remiel is right, don't listen to advice from new players, only experience gives you context to make sense out of your own early experiences. I'll bet that if the OP is still playing 5 years from now (and makes the smart move of getting out of high sec at some point) his opinion will be different.

Uhuh, that's not griefing, try again.

Yes, you missed quite a lot. You join a corp with a decent history and a large memberbase. You ask how they help new players. To get out to null they help you. You either catch a ride with a fleet that's moving out there, you have fun risking that frigate to fly out yourself (a month into the game that was a hell of a lot of fun for me), and when you get there you use the local market (because pretty much anywhere in null has one) to buy a few ships and get settled.

More often than not an experienced player throws a half dozen ships at you for free to get you started.

What do you want to do in this game, exactly? It sounds like you just don't like EVE.

And don't create whine threads and ragequit your corp over a single coercer loss.

Eve has some uniqueness compared to many other games, so CCP has a specific policy on griefing new players:

https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing

Other aggression is generally not griefing. It's within the rules of the game.

No, it explicitly doesn't.

Then you should know from Horde's forums that they have a mentor program where you can ask for help and someone, generally from PL will offer 1 on 1 coaching and usually quite a few ships, skill books, ISK, etc.

Eve-Uni offer free skill books and cheap sups.

TEST offer free ships for new players in many of their Corps.

There are some really good opportunities for new players to gain assistance if they need.

I've lived everywhere from NS to LS to HS to WHs. You don't seem to have ANY experience. Any semi-competent alliance will tell you if they are wardecced and tell you not to join the corp until you are out of HS. If you ask for an escort if you can't fly an interceptor yet, most will send a few.

Most truly new players get ships for free, absolutely. new players with the right attitude that is. Ones who are open to learning. Not ones who ragequit and create whine threads over a one million ISK loss like you did.

I'm wondering if you're trolling now. You can't have ever lived in null if you think there aren't market hubs.

1. Join a corp with competent leadership, not one lead by somebody that is ignorant about, or unwilling to accept, the nature of the game. Wardecs aren't something you hide from, due to mechanics changes they're incredibly easy to avoid if you're not dumb because 99% of the wardec corps now stick to where the easy meat is, trade routes and hubs; they're also not greifers.

2. Many of the nullsec corps that take on newbies will shower them with ships, advice and fun activities to partake in.

3. If that's what you want to do it's fine, let others make their own choices; as far as many of us are concerned most of the NPC corps have a significant percentage of people that are poison to newbies, feeding them misinformation about PvP, lowsec and nullsec etc, you're literally parroting their bile.

4. Joining FW is one of the two exceptions to the terrible advice contained in your post.

5. How will people learn to evade gatecamps and the like if they follow most of your advice? Also shuttles get popped because they often contain succulent loot.

6. Flying something you're prepared to lose is the second exception to your otherwise terrible advice.

7. The tutorials and career agents only give the very basics, if you can demonstrate that you have a grip on those other players are usually more than willing to expand upon them when asked nicely.

The rest comes with experience, and that experience comes from interacting with other players; preferably ones that know what they're doing.

Following your advice is likely to make them quit before they otherwise would, because you're encouraging them to do the most boring activities in Eve.

Why not listen to more experienced players? They have a wealth of experience and knowledge to share. We advise people to join a player corp for good reason, playing with a group is much more fun than playing solo as well as being very educational.

Most of us went through it when the NPE consisted of "here's a Rubik's cube, now go f*** yourself"; the environment was also much more dangerous than it is today; however a lot of us also know just how dire the current NPE is and try our best to alleviate the problems with it by offering help and advice that is the result of years of experience.

TL;DR You are in no position to advise newbies about anything at all, as you've aptly demonstrated by your terrible OP and subsequent posts.

Know what I did my first time in null with next to no SPs? I flew around in a rifter scouting for trade runs, creating tactical bookmarks for the corporation, trying to find hostiles/etc. I got a few hundred million ISK per week from corp members as thank you donations while learning to survive, learning to d-scan, etc.

There's more to this game than ratting, mining and mindlessly following orders in a fleet.



Confirming you've never checked contracts and/or the market in your alliance's staging system(s)

What great advice. Dont leave highsec until you're level V at everything for the one ship you want to fly. Should be good to go after 3 or 4 years

Horde, Brave, Karmafleet, etc. the are just easy examples to point to.

They aren't the only examples and there are good Corps that teach/play PvE too.

Eve-Uni maintain highsec activities and they are under permanent wardec, yet still do a lot of PvE.

There's a lot of PvE in the game and it is just as valid a play style as PvP. It just isn't done without the possibility that someone else will bring PvP to you. Doesn't mean PvE choices are bad, just that even in PvE you should be prepared to respond to someone else's actions against you, no matter where you are.

Unfortunately the OPs advice is a one any ticket to boredom and leaving the game. It can be so different (eg. Like the story from reddit linked above from a thread in New Citizens Q&A a couple of days ago).

You know what kind of people stay in npc corps for a long time?

1. Alts
2. Degenerates who make trial accounts to bad mouth eve for 21 days to new players
3. New players
4. Incursion runners
It seems you've encountered far too much of 2 and been brainwashed.

You don't need a big wallet to buy frigates. The career missions plus SOE arc will give you enough to stay in ships for a while. Or just mine some nullsec ores and use an alliance buyback program. An hour of mining once/week will keep you in frigates.

If you don't want to go to null and want to experience HS, great! Don't create threads like this though and say you CAN'T go to null as a new player

What, the you can't read you're own thread.

No wonder you have issues with Eve.

Post 49. It's not ******* rocket science.

I'm done here. You're giving terrible advice and I'm assuming trolling at this point. So congrats on that.

The people who follow your advice are the ones who quit out of boredom.

Sell a PLEX/

Oh I forgot one more type of person in npc corps

5. People who have proven to the community that they are just SO bad that no corp will ever recruit them and they're too lazy to make their own

I guess it kind of falls under the umbrella of number 2 but they actually still pay for the game

I hear I can sign up to get on your podkill list here? Please put me down for 20 or 30.

Better hurry though - I'm only here for 1 more month.

You mean the thing you should have done for yourself before posting?




I want you to watch this video. YOU are the young kid, the forum is Jackie Chan. We've seen new players like you post before, thus the general reaction to what you are saying.

Empty your cup, aka stop talking and learn, then talk.

Joining one of the 'horde' corp / alliances isn't for everyone, those who like to do their own research instead of being spoon fed. You can get a lot of satisfaction from researching the game and setting your own goals, even though initially you are going to make a tonne of mistakes but that is part of the fun.

Taking it you didn't watch the video.

No, your more recent starting point doesn't mean anything. When many of us started the game it was WAY harsher than it is now and got through it just fine. Now there are so many resources, so much help, whole 'newbro' alliances, built in safety features like safeties and pop ups , and more than that.

I've taught a few folks to play this game (and failed to teach a few others who had personal obstacles I couldn't defeat). One thing I noticed among the failures (excuse the term) is that they get all defensive when you tell them that they don't know as much as they think they know, and their their arrogance is the thing holding them back from understanding and succeeding in the game. That's why I linked you that video, you seem like your own worst enemy.

I'ma let you in on THE secret of EVE: Getting good at it and having fun with it has a bit to do with knowing the game and a LOT to do with knowing yourself... No charge for that bit of Zen advice btw.

If you want to "have a voice" and help others, look 1st at yourself and what you are doing wrong, and listen to people who know more than you. Realize that there is a reason for the negative reaction you just got from more players than just me.

Holy sh*t, please don't ever give advice again. Literally every single one of your points is terrible.

Wow, a lot of horribad advice.

1. If your corp gets decked by "griefers" and your corp can't handle the pressure. Go find a different corp. This sounds more like a newbie player joining a corp of newbie players. Don't do it.
2. Horribad. If you have a nullsec group willing to take you on at low sp, you're gold. There is no more supportive environment for a new player. There is a reason why Goon retension is so high.
3. No. The best advice to newbies is to save up for 100 frigates then go fly them until they are all blown up. By that time you should be over your fear of dying. Silly fear for an immortal anyway.
4. Faction warfare is ok way to start Pvp. Generally the corps are looser.
5. This is good advice.
6. Good.
7. Ask questions. I'm from NQ&A, I answer the same questions over and over. A newbie can do a google search, but a newbie can't tell new and relevant advice from old advice that is no longer relevant. If you join a newbie friendly corp, then they should be ready to field all your questions and happy to do so. If people are frustrated by your questions, go find a different corp.

Really, the advice to not listen to vets is horribad. We know your pain, we help others get through the pain. We know what keeps players around and what drives them away. And trying to solo the game is one of the biggest reasons players get frustrated and leave. What keeps players is the social aspect. Bonding with other players. Making friends and enemies. That is what keeps players coming back and sticking around long after the game becomes boring.

No, it's bad advice because it makes a new casual player think they are trapped in HS, which is far from the truth.

So because ratting in 0.0 is grindy and boring you....rat in high-sec for less isk with no corp mates to even talk to to keep things interesting?

I mean all the problems you say you'll have in 0.0 you'll still have in high-sec - you just won't have people offering to give you free stuff or help you...

So uh...am I missing something?

What are the *benefits* of staying in high-sec in an npc corp vs joining the new-player-friendly 0.0 group?

Also all this talk about high-sec wars vs marmites/etc...

Do you know how to avoid a war in the modern EVE?

Don't go to a major trade hub, and don't fly on the paths directly between the trade hubs. Congratulations - you've now avoided 99.99% of modern war-deccers.

For the rest? Watch local - if you see one in local he is already warping to you, so either run away or prepare to die. Since you aren't flying anything you can't afford to lose it isn't really the end of the world even if he catches you, right? And if you aren't mining he'll have to scan you first with his alt - so if you want to be extra safe keep an eye on d-scan for combat probes.

It really isn't that hard - and any half-way competent high-sec corp should be able to explain it to their new players... Whether any remaining high-sec corps are even half-competent is a separate subject for debate I suppose...

How is avoiding 6 systems and going about your daily business however you want to do so "walking on egg-shells"?

Then you joined the wrong group for your playstyle. I can think of a dozen corps in null and WHs off the top of my head that are wardecced maybe twice/year. Did you ask how often they are at war when joining?

Or did you think about going as a smaller casual corp in a place like provi, where you can PvE your heart out without being shot by residents? You wouldn't be part of the larger group, so you wouldn't be as much at risk of wars.

In spite of that, it's trivial to find an empty pocket of null or LS to PvE in for a week while at war. Don't give them kills and they won't extend the war.

In spite of all that, you talk about being at war as if it's a bad thing. There are a LOT of people in null who exclusively do PvE. It's not as intimidating to do as you make it out to be.

I think that's excessive, but that's just me.

So you're PvE-ing in HS at war, your in a backwater part of HS (less than 5-ish people typically). You see probes on d-scan (you are using it, right?) you run. They don't catch you. You see a war target show up in system (your overview is set up correctly I assume) you run. Hard to get caught.

So do what I said already. Jump in the deep end and start losing ships. If you don't like one corp, join another. Any decent one will help new players out.

Griefing is against TOS. There are no griefers with active accounts. EVE is designed specifically to not hold your hand.

I'm just gonna cut right to the chase.

If you have older accounts OP, use them to post. That or stop threatening people with your "pod kill list".

Your advice is terrible and reeks of personal failure. When i was brand new we got decced for ages by various corps, and i was forced to learn all kinds of things i never would have had to learn. No amount of missions will teach a new player the value of a station undock marker. No amount of hiding in a new player corp will teach him proper risk management skills.

Your OP is dotted with "This will definitely happen to any new player who tries" which is blatantly false. You are trying to paint the experience of other potential new players in the pale yellow of your own inadequacy and i can smell the fear from here

The second post is correct, you don't have the experience to be giving out this kind of Black / White advice.

The trouble is, he's right.

You are not an authority on PVP, or anything else in EVE.

As a newbie I formed a corp with other players in the first week, got AWOXED, re-formed another corp, headed into nullsec pretty much straight away and have now been part of a nullsec organization oriented towards helping newbies get into EVE and PVP ever since.

You are literally wrong about almost everything you have stated in your original post which makes it terrible advice for new players.

I have seen so many enthusiastic newbro posts on /r/EVE in the last year that are totally not in-line with OP's suggestions, I just can't help but shake my head at this bad advice. Every experience that *might* drive a newbro Alpha away can also be treated by said new player as a learning experience. And so many newbros do just that! It's a good metaphor for RL, honestly: it all has to do with your attitude. Some people get knocked down and give up, some people bounce right back up and think critically ab. what they'll do differently next time.

My $0.02 for incoming Alphas is a) be adventurous, b) join a player run corp. really damn fast (sure, take the time to finish career missions first, because that's free ISK), and if that player run corp. isn't quite right for you, find a new one; and c) keep a positive mental attitude: have thick skin, keep making it thicker, and do what you like to do in the game.

Get into lowsec, get into nullsec, get into wormhole space. Don't let griefers get you down. EVE is an adventure, just like life !

So please, don't listen to OP. Don't get advice from un-adventurous newbros!!

I upvoted Facepalm. Adventure, man. Spaceships. Whiiieeeeeee!



Edit: You haven't answered my question: what compelled you to do this write-up? What happened to you?

You are also apparently unable to accept criticism or respond appropriately to the very real possibility that you are wrong and are attempting to give terrible, self-defeating advice to new players off the back of that.

You're not wrong. But those experiences taught you something, and it's imperative others learn this for themselves as well. Some CEOs know what they're doing an set up a chat channel or set up an alt corp. Some CEOs are newbros themselves and can offer little to no advice on the matter. If that was the case, leaving was the right call.

Just don't take too long in an NPC corp or you'll grow lonely and that would be another reason to not enjoy your game. ;-)

One more thing ... don't take the forums too personal. Post a question in New Citizens and they may be helpful. Anywhere else, be warned -- there be vets here

Instead of telling them what not to do based on your own subjective opinion (Biased by your own experiences), you could also just link something like this and educate them on how to reduce the chances of having your experiences, without limiting them to a playstyle for the first months that is known to decrease retention.

You are not doing that by telling them what not to do for the first months. Teach them to make educated choices themselves instead, don't pick the choice for them. And you did not read the link I assume?

Since you seem to prefer high-sec - did you ever consider even looking for a high-sec corp that wasn't at war?

Shocking as it may be, there are *thousands* of corps in high-sec alone, and only *hundreds* of them are at war at any given time - leaving *thousands* that are *not* at war... And many of the better ones don't get war declared on them very often.

Top tip: HiSec isnt safe

Well sure there is no 1 single path that works for everyone - that is kind of the point a lot of people have been trying to make.

I think pretty much everyone can agree you should figure out the basic mechanics of flying a ship/etc before you join PH or another 0.0 group...But most of us also make the (fairly logical) assumption that most new players will have already done so before they figure out what PH even is, or how to join a corporation...

And I don't think many (if any) would have had an issue if the OP had said that the player should become comfortable with the game before joining a corp - the point that offends them is when you try to specify an SP level or a specific time frame for that process. Some people are comfortable and ready to go within minutes - others will *never* get there in 20 years (and everything in between) - but that is an *individual* thing. Not something you can just arbitrarily set at "get cruiser mastery 4 or 5 first".

edit: Also it isn't always a bad thing to step outside your comfort zone - particularly early on. It is a way that a lot of people learn. And as I and others have stated: When you are that young you really have *nothing to lose* even if things go badly - you just get a learning experience as the OP seems to have done. His problem was in immediately giving up each time after minor setbacks.

Obvious troll OP is obvious.

Where are all these trillions of hi-sec wardeccing corps I keep hearing 'experienced newbies' talk about? From the way they describe it, Marmite camps every station 24/7, just waiting for all those juicy Ibis killmails. If anything, HS needs to be more dangerous, not less.

What makes you think alpha clones will bring in any new players to begin with?